Dasheeda Dawson keeps busy by ensuring the implementation of equitable and effective cannabis rules and regulations.

Before she became New York’s “Canabis Czar,” Dawson made her mark in Oregon. She developed Portland's legal cannabis businesses, including its regulatory licensing, compliance, education, and equity initiatives.

“Believe it or not my last day in Oregon was my first day in New York,” Dawson told Benzinga. “I think I was one of the first to move jurisdictions as far as regulation goes.”

How has it been? “Portland was like riding a bike with training wheels,” she says. “But New York is like a motorcycle with no brakes and no helmet — luckily, I’m from Brooklyn.”

Dawson — who is also an accomplished author and entrepreneur in her own right — has been instrumental in shaping cannabis policy and business practices to be more inclusive and equitable. She focuses on opportunities for communities disproportionately affected by the war on drugs.

Dawson chatted with us at the recent Benzinga Cannabis Market Spotlight event in New Jersey. Here’s what she had to say about creating a fair cannabis market in New York City. The conversation was edited for length and clarity.

BZ: What are your thoughts on New York’s legal cannabis rollout versus New Jersey’s?

New Jersey legalized by way of ballot initiative, versus New York where it was legislation that got passed by both the Senate and the Assembly and then signed by then-Governor Andrew Cuomo. I also think it was interesting to see how legislators in New Jersey were defining social equity; New Jersey actually didn’t include that language in the legislation — the Cannabis Regulatory Commission has tried to retrofit it regulatory wise.

New York’s program had restorative justice and social equity as tenants. And it was on the regulatory body here in New York to then create a framework that was meant to follow that law, which is a little bit different, I think, when you’re kind of compelled by law to do it, versus the wiggle room of being able to do something from a regulatory standpoint. The energy behind how cannabis was legalized in both states is very different.

New Jersey also went the traditional route that other legalized states had taken, where the medical operators that existed in the market had first access to adult use. New York didn’t necessarily follow the traditional model. It worked very hard to create a program that would essentially set up market access for family farms, small businesses, and those who are justice-involved. And so, to date, New York is tracking where there’s a lot more diversity in the market, even with the challenges of injunction.

BZ: Could New Jersey and New York be the forerunners of interstate cannabis commerce?

I think it’s worthwhile. But I think it’s bigger than New York and New Jersey. We have this whole Northeast Corridor, stemming from Massachusetts down to Connecticut and Pennsylvania. We have this group of states that are already adjacent to each other in a way that could radically establish what “interstate commerce” looks like. California, Washington and Oregon have been engaging in the same conversations. When I was a czar for the Portland, Oregon office, it was a lot of that conversation. But rescheduling isn’t going to change that. It’s important for people to know that.

BZ: Why not?

Rescheduling is not for the industry that exists today. There are still stipulations where, if it’s not done through the DEA license, it’s still federally illegal. It also won’t change any of the banking prospects in that regard. And it doesn’t change the federal illegalities of interstate commerce either — except if you are licensed by the DEA, which right now, only a pharmaceutical company or a hospital would be. These are just some examples. And of course, the expectation is maybe there will be new people that can be licensed. But it’s a fairly long, expensive process that the average licensee — certainly the small businesses that we’ve been advocating for in New York and New Jersey — would not necessarily be able to afford or get all the way through.

BZ: How did you go from Brooklyn to Oregon?

I got into the industry as a patient. I moved out to Arizona, and jumped into the industry with my skill set. I jokingly say I went from Target as a senior executive to THC. Then it became clear, on the advocacy and policy development side, that business common sense was missing. I started doing a lot of contracting with the government on framework. Before you know it, an opportunity arose during COVID-19.

Portland called and I was like, “You know what? I’d like to see behind that door.” By overseeing implementation, I get to take my business sense of strategy and capabilities, and put it into the framework development. Too often, it’s like whoever lobbies best is what the government will put in place. That’s not in the best interest for the actual ecosystem of the market.

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BZ: You returned to New York at a strange time. Dispensaries claimed they were raided even though they followed the proper protocols and weren’t illicit. What was the reaction like?

You’re talking about Empire. They never got a license, and therefore they were not following the law. They tried to make an argument as to why they were somehow exempt from it. But no one is exempt. We’re literally trying to transition “legacy” into legal. There’s about $7 billion that is estimated to be circulating in the underground market, and we don’t anticipate all of it transitioning. But if it is going to transition, we have to do so in an orderly fashion.

I think of it as taking a big jug of water and trying to pour it into these smaller jugs. You can’t do that all willy-nilly, because you’re going to lose all your water. That’s part of the reason why it’s this slow and methodical process because we are trying to capture as much of it as possible, also not recreate the war on drugs.

BZ: What’s at stake with these illegal stores?

We have about 2,500 Illegal stores. They’re largely people not from these communities; it feels like a real estate play; multiple stores owned by the same landlords; and, once again, we’re leaving behind the communities that were disproportionately impacted.

They don’t know the owners. It’s not “the plug” that owns the stores. They’re actually circumventing the law. And as a result, the 40% cannabis tax revenue that goes back into communities disproportionately impacted is not happening. The ability to ensure that we have the safest and most educated experience for consumers is also not happening. And then, unfortunately, for a lot of these places, they’re doing a lot of underage sales.

I’m a mom to a 20-year-old. I’m not against 18-and-over leveraging cannabis, particularly if you’re in a medical program; I’m a proponent of it. But I do know that under 21, especially in the high school years, lookalike packaging and not knowing exactly what you’re getting — that is the only target audience that would be accepting of it. Because they’re not coming into stores and asking questions. They’re just lucky to leave with a product. And so that has been the problem with the gray market and illicit stores. And there’s a big difference between them and what we consider “legacy to legal.”

BZ: Governor Kathy Hochul recently shook up the ranks. Is New York in a better place than it was regarding cannabis regulation?

I’m still “watch and see” at this point. Governor Hochul has been doing some things that require side eyes. I’m not entirely sure who’s advising her. Firing [Chris Alexander] the first black man in the country to do this work, and in the manner in which she did it, left a bad taste in people’s mouths. But I want to give leadership a chance. She recently announced a new Acting Executive Director Felicia Reed, who is a black woman out of the office of Children and Family Services.

On face value, that office did not support legalization. It caused a lot of criminalization and collateral damage, like taking people’s children from their home. But her division of juvenile justice actually was the one division that did support the Marijuana Regulation & Taxation Act (MRTA). So I think she gets it. And we’ll just have to wait and see.

BZ: Say you have a call with Felicia right now; how does the discussion go?

The first thing I would say to Felicia, is that, we got to keep our eye on the prize that ultimately the MRTA was first and foremost, a restorative justice bill. Why? Because New York arrested more people than any other state in the country. And New York City is committed to that because New York was the arrest capital during that time period. And it’s critical we keep that in mind, because those are the people that we are looking to restore and repair. And so we don’t want to re-harm them in the process of creating a market.

The other thing that I would say is that the cannabis industry changes every six months. Rescheduling is something that we should take seriously because the DEA doesn’t support the state and local efforts… it has never. And before the Cole Memo, they used to arrest state-licensed operators. So my concern is high for how will New York shake out. And I think it’s important for the state to be involved in that conversation. I hope she’s paying attention to that.

The last thing I will say is that we launched a conditional adult-use retail dispensary or card-licensed program with justice-involved people who were previously criminalized or their immediate family. And a lot of them haven’t been operationalized yet, we’re kind of marching on to the next group of the next group. And it’s sort of like well, we said we were starting with the most harm, but we didn’t actually see it to fruition. So I would call on her to see the card program all the way through.

BZ: What’s next?

The Cannabis NYC Loan Fund (unveiled June 18) has been something that we’ve been working on for two years. And so we’re excited to get to the point where we will have some more access to financing for licensees. We built it with the tenets of the social and economic equity goals of the MRTA in mind, and the real needs of the entrepreneurs.

I’ve also launched the Cannabis Reentry Employment Assistance and Training Experience or CREATE. It’s a pilot workforce development program for reentering citizens giving access to the pipeline of jobs. New York State has already created 7,000 jobs in the last year and a half, which is wild. We’re expecting 60,000 by the time it’s all done, and we want people, all people to have access to it.

And then lastly, I’m really excited about another acronym — I’m an acronym queen — our Location Exchange After Shutdown and Enforcement or LEASE. What it says is that you have a shutdown or enforcement happen at one of these illicit stores. Some of them are viable, but very few. A lot of them are by schools and we want those gone. But if they’re viable and meet the buffer requirements, our goal is to create a massive list and create networking events to put licensees in with those landlords. Hopefully, some synergy exists and they’re able to walk away with doing some commercial leasing. It seems like real estate is a big barrier in New York City right now.

BZ: With your background, you could have worked in almost any industry. Why cannabis?

I’m compelled to create markets where I could live and thrive as a patient. I was heavy using the legacy market; I’m a consumer and because of my ailments, and I just felt after a certain point that I didn’t want to have the same risk anymore. But if I was going to move into the legal industry, it still had to make sense for social equity and restorative justice. That’s why I chose cannabis.

I think that it’s just part of my life’s work. And it’s a good convergence. I’m also a molecular biologist with a business background. I’m also an advocate for communities that have been disproportionately impacted because I come from one. So, it just made sense.

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Photo courtesy of Dasheeda Dawson