When billionaire Mark Cuban joined Dave Ramsey on The Dave Ramsey Show back in 2014, the two dove into a topic that's still a hot-button issue today: credit card debt. Ramsey and Cuban didn't exactly hold back and what they had to say is worth a second listen – especially for anyone who thinks credit cards are just a harmless tool.
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Cuban bluntly said, "If you use your credit cards, you do not want to be rich. That's my favorite line; I tell it to people all the time." It's the advice you'd expect from someone who's seen firsthand what it takes to build a fortune. Cuban explained that paying off credit card debt is like getting an instant return on investment. "If you're paying 15% or 20% interest, paying that down means you just earned 15% or 20%," he said. According to Cuban, there's no reason to shell out interest to someone else when you could put that money to better use – like investing in your future.
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Dave Ramsey was all in on Cuban's take, but he wanted to drive home just how crucial this is if you're aiming for serious wealth. Ramsey brought out some data to back it up. "The Forbes 400, the wealthiest people in North America, were surveyed and 75% of them – yeah, the wealthy people, not your broke brother-in-law – say getting out of debt and staying out of debt is key to building wealth," he said. That stat wasn't just a throwaway line; it's a point Ramsey's made for years, stressing that avoiding debt isn't just for people trying to make ends meet – it's a strategy that the ultrawealthy swear by.
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Since Cuban's appearance on The Ramsey Show, consumer credit card debt has grown to record levels. According to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York’s latest Quarterly Report on Household Debt and Credit, Americans collectively hold $1.14 trillion in credit card debt as of the second quarter of 2024. This represents an increase of $27 billion from the previous quarter.
The average credit card balance per consumer has also increased. TransUnion reports that the average credit card balance rose from $5,947 in the second quarter of 2023 to $6,329 in the second quarter of 2024.
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Ramsey pointed out that eliminating debt puts you in the driver's seat regarding your income, which he called "your largest wealth-building tool." Ramsey's always been about control and making sure you're calling the shots with your money, not the other way around. When debt's out of the picture, you can direct your money toward things that build wealth.
For Cuban, this isn't just theoretical. He's been talking about staying out of debt for years and his advice hasn't changed: focus on the basics, avoid high-interest debt and take advantage of the guaranteed return that comes with paying off what you owe. "Cut up your credit cards," Cuban advised. "If you're using them, you're just not serious about getting rich."
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The lesson from both Cuban and Ramsey is pretty simple: debt holds you back. If the wealthiest people say the same thing, maybe it's time to notice. Ramsey also emphasized the importance of surrounding yourself with the right advice. "Listening to people who've been successful is how you get there," he said. And while that might sound like common sense, it's a point that doesn't always sink in until you hear it from a billionaire like Cuban.
For those who find themselves stuck in the cycle of credit card debt, Cuban and Ramsey's conversation serves as a reminder that breaking free is possible, but it starts with taking that first step – ditching the cards.
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